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Visit Jerry Verlinger's column >>

JERRY VERLINGER

Trying to get in the middle of everything!
Articles Posted: 26  Links Seeded: 465
Member Since: 2/2008  Last Seen: 3/17/2010

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{"contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"Jerry611"}

Obama to Go to Copenhagen With Pledge of Emissions Cuts

News Type: Event — Seeded on Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:55 PM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: The New York Times
world-news, obama, global-warming, climate-change, united-nations, international-climate-summit
Seeded by Jerry Verlinger
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President Obama will travel to the international climate summit meeting in Copenhagen....

.....to tell the delegates that the United States intends to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions by levels that reflect the targets specified by legislation passed in the House this past June, but is stalled in the Senate. Congress has never enacted legislation that includes firm emissions limits or ratified an international global warming agreement with binding targets. Obama, on his way to accept the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo on Dec. 10, will stop at the United Nations talks to deliver the same promise in hopes of spurring significant progress at the summit meeting, officials said..
[Source: John M Broder - NY Times]

Related Articles
Official: Leaders may join Obama at climate summitAssociated PressWed Nov 2510Comments
{"contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
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  • Public Discussion (22)
{"commentId":10898615,"authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
Jerry Verlinger

There are those that believe Global Warming or Climate Change, if you want to call it that, is not really happening. They claim the whole thing is a scam to generate unnecessary expenditures to limit carbon emissions.

Well it is happening. It is caused by a natural cycle the world goes through every 50,000 years or so, and there is nothing we can do to stop it. However, there are things we can do to slow it down (by reducing carbon emissions). Also, there are things we need to do to adjust to the effects the changes are causing.

There are droughts in some parts of the world that are affecting the food supply, this causes mass migrations that in turn affect the food supply in other parts of the world. There is also the problem of rising sea levels that will have a devastating effect on coastlines around the world.

Then there is the problem of the melting of the Polar Caps and the snow caps on the high peaks. This of course, is the direct cause of the rising sea levels, but it also causing a dangerous change of the oceans currents.

The accelerated introduction of fresh water to the oceans is changing the salt levels, which in turn is changing the oceans currents. The most significant of these changes is that of the Gulf Stream. Scientist are predicting the Gulf Stream will eventually shut down, they just don't know when it will happen. If (or when) we lose the Gulf Stream, which brings warm waters to the Northern Hemisphere, we will be on the brink of a new Glacier age.

So, the non-believers can continue to not believe and just ignore the problem until it is too late, or they can get on board and recognize that we have a problem that must be addressed.

{"commentId":10898615,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
    Reply#1 - Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:51 PM EST
    {"commentId":10903204,"authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
    Bob Nelson.

    Today's news is that the Chinese will also be going to Copenhagen with serious goals for reducing their carbon emissions.

    So maybe Obama's visit to China..........

    {"commentId":10903204,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#2 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:49 AM EST
    {"commentId":10903869,"authorDomain":"whitehood"}
    whitehood

    It's political suicide. The US sits on an ocean of natural gas with a lot of oil in deep offshore finds. We can become energy independent, but we'll have to use hydrocarbons for the near future to do it. BTW the Chinese won't do a thing.

    {"commentId":10903869,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"whitehood"}
      Reply#3 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:44 AM EST
      {"commentId":10904125,"authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
      Bob Nelson.

      BTW the Chinese won't do a thing.

      Do you have some concrete reason for saying this?

      {"commentId":10904125,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#4 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:24 AM EST
      {"commentId":10904190,"authorDomain":"whitehood"}
      whitehood

      Do you think they are going to destroy their economy for something as nebulous as carbon emissions? They're currently dependent largely on coal fired plants.

      {"commentId":10904190,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"whitehood"}
        #4.1 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:30 AM EST
        {"commentId":10904245,"authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
        Bob Nelson.

        Please don't try to turn the question around. In the press today, China announced serious reductions in carbon emissions.

        You said "Chinese won't do a thing". Do you have any basis for that statement other than your intimate conviction?

        I wouldn't pretend to foretell the future. You did foretell the future. Can you back up your prediction?

        {"commentId":10904245,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
        • 1 vote
        #4.2 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:35 AM EST
        {"commentId":10904472,"authorDomain":"whitehood"}
        whitehood

        We will see won't we. The only way to do that would be to abandon coal and go to natural gas and/of nuclear. With a ever increasing need for power lets say a conservative 3% increase per year I don't see that happening. What they say and what they do are two different things.

        {"commentId":10904472,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"whitehood"}
          #4.3 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:58 AM EST
          Reply
          {"commentId":10904643,"authorDomain":"whitehood"}
          whitehood

          One other thing Bob. I've read what the Chinese have promised and to do what they say in 10 years is huge stretch and for practical purposes is pure propaganda. Even if they practice efficiency, the rebound effect occurs which in turn produces an even bigger demand upon the system. The only way to do what they want is to go nuke and it would take a minimun of 7 to 10 years to bring those plants on line and the capacity to do so doesn't exist. Finally nothing approaches the price and energy density of hydrocarbons presently. Won't happen.

          {"commentId":10904643,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"whitehood"}
            Reply#5 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:14 AM EST
            {"commentId":10905374,"authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
            Bob Nelson.

            So... you do not have any hard data to support your position. Noted.

            {"commentId":10905374,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
            • 1 vote
            #5.1 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:23 AM EST
            {"commentId":10905821,"authorDomain":"whitehood"}
            whitehood

            Sure I do Bob. Do the math. You're going to reduce emission by 4% per year but your energy needs increase at the very least 3% per year. You haven't taken in the rebound effect from any efficiencies you build into the system and the only way you can keep up within the time limits is with hydocarbon fueled systems with coal and diesel being the only means.

            {"commentId":10905821,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"whitehood"}
              #5.2 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:02 PM EST
              {"commentId":10908090,"authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
              Bob Nelson.

              Where did you get those numbers?

              {"commentId":10908090,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
              • 1 vote
              #5.3 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:10 PM EST
              {"commentId":10913247,"authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
              Jerry Verlinger

              whitehood, What Nelson is asking is that you provide some hard evidence, a llink, a reference, or a substanciated source. Yor math, although interesting, is also not substanciated, you seem to be pulling numbers and theories out of the air.

              IMO, the Chinese are willing and ready to do something substancial. That's why they are going to Copenhagen, , they probabaly are looking for some ideas as to how to reduce their emmissions without hindering their growth. However, the Chinese also look to the future and I'm sure they relalize, that other countries realize the same thing,

              The Chinese have a saying;

              "A society grows great when old men plant trees whos' shade they know they will never sit under."

              {"commentId":10913247,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
                #5.4 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:17 AM EST
                {"commentId":10938345,"authorDomain":"whitehood"}
                whitehood

                Already have Verlinger. Read the last posts. The Chinese will do something if they are paid to do so.

                {"commentId":10938345,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"whitehood"}
                  #5.5 - Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:19 PM EST
                  {"commentId":10962297,"authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
                  Jerry Verlinger

                  Read the last posts

                  Are you referring to your post with your 3% and 4% hypothesise? Where did you get those numbers? Basically the question is, do you have anything to substantiate your contention that ".... the Chinese won't do a thing."

                  Many of us around here don't care for hard-line comments like that without some documentation to back it up. All you had to do preface your comment with an "IMO", that way it is understood that you are basing your comment on your opinion and not something factual.

                  {"commentId":10962297,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
                    #5.6 - Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:29 PM EST
                    {"commentId":10964757,"authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
                    Bob Nelson.

                    All you had to do preface your comment with an "IMO", that way it is understood that you are basing your comment on your opinion and not something factual.

                    I dream of an NV where people recognize the difference between opinion and fact... especially their own!

                    {"commentId":10964757,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
                      #5.7 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 2:58 AM EST
                      Reply
                      {"commentId":10908727,"authorDomain":"whitehood"}
                      whitehood

                      Read the article. China promises to decrease "carbon intensity" 40 to 45%. Sure, just like Great Wall Motors of China won't copy and export vehicles made elsewhere.

                      {"commentId":10908727,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"whitehood"}
                        Reply#6 - Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:04 PM EST
                        {"commentId":10911413,"authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
                        Bob Nelson.

                        Read the article.

                        Ummm.....

                        "The article" is about the US, not China. I mentioned China in #2. I don't know what article you had in mind. Mine was

                        http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7821e6d8-da69-11de-9c32-00144feabdc0.html

                        As you stated earlier, China can only accomplish this goal by shifting massively to nuclear power, whose benefits will only come on line in five to eight years. So... a reduction of 40% in ten years is not at all the same thing as a reduction of 4% per year over the next ten years.

                        So far, you have repeated your own personal doubts about China's good faith, but you have produced nothing actually concerning carbon emissions. Do you have anything?

                        {"commentId":10911413,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
                        • 1 vote
                        #6.1 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:55 AM EST
                        Reply
                        {"commentId":10914156,"authorDomain":"whitehood"}
                        whitehood

                        You're spining Bob. Read the latest news. China is agreeable to reduce its emissions. but demands financial support to do so. It won't do a thing, just like I said.

                        {"commentId":10914156,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"whitehood"}
                          Reply#7 - Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:35 AM EST
                          {"commentId":10964675,"authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
                          Jerry Verlinger

                          Your doing the spinning here whitehood, you have continuously avoided or skirted around the issue of you providing references to support your claims. Read what latest news? I understand that your just a greenhorn around here having joined Newsvine just this month (Nov), But you have been asked the same direct question 6 times on this thread of only 17 comments, and you have been unable to provide any support for your nebulous Claims.

                          Hopefully you noticed that Bob Nelson provided a link to the article he referred to, however I recognize that you may be so Green that you don't know how to embed a link into your comment. If That is the case, why didn't you provide the name and date of the publication you used for a reference?

                          In time you will learn we are a very serious crowd here at Newsvine, and although we do have our lighter moments, there is little tolerance for vague and frivolous debate. We like people to back up their positions with sound and logical arguments or substantial references.

                          BTW, I am not being facious when I say, Welcome to Newsvine.

                          {"commentId":10964675,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
                            #7.1 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 2:39 AM EST
                            Reply
                            {"commentId":10964793,"authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
                            Jerry Verlinger

                            Incidentally whitehood, you have completely derailed this thread, as Nelson points out in his comment #6.1, This article is not about China. I seeded this article and posted my opening comment in the hopes of sparking discussion regarding the U.S. commitment for Carbon Emissions reduction. Instead we get a pi$$ing contest between you and Bob Nelson over your unwillingness or inability to provide references to substantiate your position.

                            {"commentId":10964793,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
                              Reply#8 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 3:07 AM EST
                              {"commentId":10965209,"authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
                              Bob Nelson.

                              Ooops! Sorry 'bout that...

                              :-((

                              {"commentId":10965209,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"bobnelsonfrance"}
                                #8.1 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 5:36 AM EST
                                Reply
                                {"commentId":10965478,"authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
                                Jerry Verlinger

                                Don't worry about it Bob , your cool. It was whitehood that that repeatedly refused to respond to your fair question regarding the origin of his information. I also jumped into that exchange, allowing the thread to get way off topic.

                                I appreciate your quick apology. I don't expect to hear from whitehood, apparently he thinks he's never wrong.

                                {"commentId":10965478,"threadId":"732965","contentId":"3546314","authorDomain":"Jerry611"}
                                  Reply#9 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 6:55 AM EST
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