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JERRY VERLINGER

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Girl 21, Slashes Boyfriends Throat With Beer Bottle - DA Does Not Bring Charges

Seeded on Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:15 PM EDT
Read ArticleArticle Source: The Huffington Post
us-news, video, denver-news, make-my-day, make-my-day-law, shaun-cassidy, azura-lakin, colorados-make-my-day-law, drunken-monkey, intruder-laws, larimer-county-district-attorney, larry-abrahamson
Seeded by Jerry Verlinger
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A woman who caused fatal injuries to her ex-boyfriend with a broken beer bottle will not face any charges under Colorado's Make My Day law.

On Oct. 2, Azura Lakin, 21, slashed her ex-boyfriend's throat with a broken bottle after a fight during which he choked her and tried to re-enter her house. According to police reports the ex-boyfriend, Shaun Cassidy, 23, was with Lakin and friends at a downtown Fort Collins bar called the Drunken Monkey. Witnesses there told police that Cassidy "began to act hostile," was intoxicated and smashed Lakin's phone before returning to her Fort Collins apartment to take back his things. Read more;

Azura Lakin, 21, Will Not Be Prosecuted For Ex-Boyfriend's Murder Under Colorado's 'Make My Day' Law (VIDEO)

 

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Jerry Verlinger

Weird case. Is the DA is wrong?

She let did let him into her home ... but then he did attack her.

Was her reaction excessive? Or did she have the right to defend herself to the degree that she did?

She should have locked the door and called 911, but she elected to take the law into her own hands.

So should she go completely unpunished? Or should she be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter?

  • 1 vote
#1 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:24 PM EDT
Z1P2

Is the DA is wrong?

No, it's simple self defense... but this sentence is wrong: "A woman who caused fatal injuries to her ex-boyfriend" I really hate it when writers do this. It's so unneccessary. Just say what it is... here's a re-write: "A woman who killed her ex-boyfriend" isn't that so much easier to understand?

Was her reaction excessive? Or did she have the right to defend herself to the degree that she did?

I don't believe in being required to give an attacker a fair chance to rape, maim or murder you. If someone attacks you, take every advantage you can to save yourself, including using a broken bottle as a weapon if that's all you've got.

So should she go completely unpunished? Or should she be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter?

She should get a medal for being brave enough to stand up for herself.

  • 6 votes
#1.1 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:37 PM EDT
Shannoscubie

I don't believe in being required to give an attacker a fair chance to rape, maim or murder you. If someone attacks you, take every advantage you can to save yourself, including using a broken bottle as a weapon if that's all you've got.

Heck, yeah. Nobody who's never had a freak at their door can say for sure what you ought to have done to survive any given situation. When they're banging on your door, you don't know if they'll just go away if you ignore them or if the police will get there before they kick it in and attack you or whether you should open the door to try to reason with them/stall them until the police get there. If the police come at all.

  • 5 votes
#1.2 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:58 PM EDT
Z1P2

Even if the police come, they can't do anything until he attacks her.

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:17 PM EDT
VerbalBarb

It sure sounds like self defense to me.

Whether she opened the door or not, if he came at her again she was defending herself.

  • 9 votes
#1.4 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:59 PM EDT
gmross

I live in Colorado and no the DA wasn't wrong. I had a drunk break into my home and now he is doing ten years for burglary after I beat him down with a baseball bat, I'm still living free, because of the "Make my day law".

  • 5 votes
#1.5 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:50 AM EDT
Defense Counsel

Hey there Jerry. Interesting seed. This is a sketchy write up on this event. It would be nice to have more information. Were there other witnesses? Did neighbors here or see anything??Did anyone call 911? Was there a collective history as far as DV between the two?Was this typical conduct ofthe guy that "had his day made"? There are plenty of questions you can come up with. IMHO though, my gut reaction is that this "drunken monkey" was afforded his Due Process. We have so many instances of DV and homicide as the result of DV, that we must afford citizens the right of self defense. I hope they took a closer look than the author of this article though. LOL Take care Jerry.

  • 6 votes
#1.6 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:42 AM EDT
Jerry Verlinger

"A woman who caused fatal injuries to her ex-boyfriend" I really hate it when writers do this. It's so unneccessary. Just say what it is... here's a re-write: "A woman who killed her ex-boyfriend" isn't that so much easier to understand?

The writer wrote the sentence correctly. The outright killing of someone is murder.

Causing fatal injuries, is just that. It could mean she committed manslaughter, involentary manslaughter, depraved indifference to human life, aggraevatted assault with a deadly weapon, accidently causing a fatality, or causing a fatality in self defense.

  • 5 votes
#1.7 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:06 PM EDT
Loretta Kemsley

From the article:

When he moved towards her as if to choke her again, Lakin says she hit him with the broken bottle cutting him.

Cassidy died on Oct. 9 from a stroke resulting from his blood loss and blunt force head injury.

From that description, it does not sound like she delberately slashed his throat. We don't know if the bottle was broken before she hit him with it. She also didn't wait for him to die before calling for help on his behalf. He died seven days after he attacked her. That's longer than she would have lived if he'd been able to complete his attempted strangulation of her.

  • 7 votes
#1.8 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:18 PM EDT
OomYaaqub

Even if the police come, they can't do anything until he attacks her.

Wrong. They can order him to stay off the property and if warranted even escort her to night court to get an emergency Protection from Abuse order.

  • 1 vote
#1.9 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:23 PM EDT
gmross

I have been in an assault situation when my life and my wifes life were in danger, and I have had to defend myself and my wife from the attacker and it took the police over an hour to get there. In a case like this what are you supposed to do let the person do the damage and hope you have a case, or are still alive when the police get there?? No, you defend yourself.

  • 3 votes
#1.10 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:09 AM EDT
Mark-1152629

The following is a synopsis of this mysterious story.

-Man travels six hours from home with an invitation to visit ex-fiance and stay at her (woman) home for the weekend.
-Man and woman go out for an evening of drinking in a college town.
-Man sees woman socializing with other men and becomes jealous and upset.
-Man and woman argue in front of two of the woman's friends while in public.
-Woman's phone is broken by man, but not in her presence, as she was informed of breakage by her male friend.
-Woman calls sister to pick her up and leaves man at bar without wallet (woman has man's belongings).
-Man rides cab to woman's home to get wallet and pay for cab fare.
-Man also attempts to collect his clothes bag, car keys, etc., so that he can leave to either go six hours back home or find alternative housing for the night.
-Man and woman argue about broken phone and woman will not return wallet due to her damaged property.
-Woman and sister push man outside home and close door.
-Man has no money, no car keys or his other overnight possessions, and is six hours from home in an unfamiliar town.
-Man is persistent and knocks on woman's door to get his belongings.
-Woman remains upset over broken phone, goes to the kitchen and retrieves a beer bottle, opens the door to the man's knocking and swings bottle over man's head twice, cutting his neck the second time.
-Man exits home, woman sees blood and follows screaming "I didn't mean to hurt him".
-Woman's sister calls 911, as man staggers about the multi-home complex.
-Police arrive and woman indicates she hit man because he broke her cell phone. Police also administer first aid until paramedics arrive.
-Woman is taken into police custody for unlawful actions and is bonded out of jail the following day.
-Woman's police mug-shot shows no signs of a physical altercation, nor was there any indication from her as to any choking, etc., but only "pushing back and forth".
-Man spends week in hospital, unable to speak and substantially paralized from a stroke due to blood loss. Man inevitably dies from his injuries.
-Hospital records indicate man's blood alcohol content was within legal limits.
-Police fail to record woman's blood-alcohol content.
-Police investigation relies upon four witness accounts to the events; woman, woman's sister (at the home) and two men that are friends of the woman (events occuring at the bar). Intoxication identified only due to witness accounts -DA does not consult with hospital.
-Woman has multiple prior law violations involving alcohol consumption convictions (DUI/DWI, underage drinking, etc.) and is currently on probation for such offenses occurring in the town from where the man is visiting. DA does not check with other jurisdiction for such priors.
-Man has no previous alcohol offenses, nor any violent offenses on record.
-Woman has friend whom had previously been directly involved in a CO Make My Day law case, which may or may not have provided some helpful guidance during the week following the current events.
-Woman consults with attorney and provides a more thorough account of the events that occurred inside the home that night. Woman's sister corroborates story.
-DA releases statement recording reasons for not seeking charges, based upon the accounts of the four individuals noted above.

I've followed this story in the local papers since the morning when the events occurred, and I am very suspicious of the outcome. To me, all of the noted facts above seems to indicate that this story should be looked at a little closer.

Although it is common for men to be the aggressor in domestic violence situations like this, it would not be unusual for the woman to be the culprit. Based only upon the limited witness accounts (and the man being incoherent and unable to speak), I'd like to think that a case like this would be reviewed for a great amount of time before a DA comes to any conclusions. Personally, I think the DA is being negligent in this case, and I don't think we've heard the end of this story.

  • 2 votes
#1.11 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:56 AM EDT
VerbalBarb

I guess the DA must have had the information that I've seen in some articles - witnesses to violent bahavior on the part of the guy, witness to choking and an investigation that showed scrapes and bruises on the women.

Go figure.

  • 3 votes
#1.12 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:36 PM EDT
cjfromMN

MARK,

your facts you have typed out so nice and neat, is all part of what the d.a. considered, but the issue is not about the night is about , the right for ANYONE to be safe within there private property and his ablity to suggest that this woman can be convicted based on the law.

The other factors that becomes very clear is the man also had choices. He could have left after being coming JEALOUS and feeling disrespected EARLIER in the night.

He could have called the police to take him or meet him at her address. Or even after she shut the door the first time went to a neighbors and ask to use there phone.

He could have called the police from the bar.

Note, that prior law violations don't weigh against a main reason for dismissing a charge, the d.a. knows that most judges will not let the jury here that because the law is not based on previous history, it is based on the right to be safe as an expectation of being on private property.

  • 3 votes
#1.13 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:00 PM EDT
Mark-1152629

"cjfromMN": Hypothetically, I'd like to invite you over to my house in CO for a visit. I'll be waiting for you with a baseball bat when I open the door and allow you to cross the door threshold. Whereupon, I'll take the life from you and tell the police that you tried to choke me. My brother will back up my story, because he's my flesh and blood and family looks out for one another. Obviously, you won't be a witness.

I might be able to convince a couple girl friends of mine across the street to tell the police investigators that you were staggering up to my house, and maybe my friends heard you yelling at my front door; you were obviously intoxicated. I'll have my brother slap me around a little for signs of a struggle.

So there you have it, four witnesses (mine, my brother's, and my two gal friends across the street) to your violent and intoxicated behavior, my brother's witness account to you choking me and an investigation that showed scrapes and bruises on me after you crossed the door threshold to my residence.

Open your mind and think about the consequences of not examining all the evidence in a constructive manner. Realize that the only witness accounts to this story are either related or friendlies. The DA has a duty to fully investigate this crime when limited witness accounts are available. Otherwise, innocent people can be killed in CO through the "Make My Day" law without any consequence, as likely seems evident in this story.

  • 2 votes
#1.14 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:23 PM EDT
Loretta Kemsley

Show me proof the DA did not examine all the evidence.

Show me proof the DA did not have all the evidence.

Show me proof you've objected to others who've had the same ruling under this law.

I've taken a look at comments of yours on other seeds. Because there are more negative comments about women, I suspect this obsession on this case is because a woman defended herself rather than ending up dead which is the typical result when it comes to deadly DV.

Three women are murdered by their intimate partners every single day in this country. It would be better if their violent, abusive intimate partners were the fatality rather than women who are their victims.

  • 3 votes
#1.15 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:42 PM EDT
Mark-1152629

Loretta, I also just took a look at comments of yours on other seeds and they are mostly all gender-related issues. Therefore, you might be considered the last type of person to point a finger at another for being skeptical about a DA's decision that seems to be a gender-biased one.

Oh and speaking of obsessions, how many unsolicited posts have you submitted to this article? You seem to be very biased against men in DV situations, no matter how uninformed you are about a specific occurrence. Your last comments above might be more constructive if they also indicated that intimate partner homicides accounted for five percent of the murders of men (one man murdered per day). Fact is, it is not all one-sided, as you seem to be bent on portraying.

  • 1 vote
#1.16 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:35 PM EDT
Loretta Kemsley

Most intimate partner homicides committed on men are done by other men. Forgot to mention that?

Yes, I'm a women's rights advocate. I'm right out front with that.

But you're hiding behind a false "critic" of this DA's legal decision.

Again: why aren't you answering my question: Have you complained this loud and long about similar rulings using this law? If not, why not?

  • 3 votes
#1.17 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:13 PM EDT
Mark-1152629

I suppose that I could also write that "most" partner homicides committed on women are done by other women, but I'm not that reckless without providing a source for such statistics. Since you do not have any credibility with me or others on this site, it might be helpful for your cause if you were to provide sources for your accusations against men.

Additionally, if you were "right out front" with your women's-rights advocate role, I'm certain that I, and the many other viewer's of this website, would have noted such credentials in the first of your more than sixteen (16!) posts on this article. Is that really your definition of being "right out front"? If so, you're increasingly losing more and more credibility due to what is becoming obvious that you are obsessively biased against the male species of the human race, no matter the circumstances.

  • 1 vote
#1.18 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:27 PM EDT
Loretta Kemsley

LOL. Nice try to intimidate me. Didn't work. Everyone who wants to check out my "credentials" can click on my name and they'll find what they want. If you didn't know that, then you really aren't in a position to speak for anyone here at NV because even most beginners figure it out pretty quick.

Everyone who knows me knows I'm a feminist, so why the pretense you know me (and how popular or disliked I am) if you didn't know that?

If you were as knowledgable about intimate partner violence as you pretend, you wouldn't need to ask for my source. You'd know the truth of what I posted and that the same info can be found on the DoJ website.

Your arguments just don't hang together in your attempt to attack me anymore than they do in your attempt to discredit the DA in this case.

But you keep right on posting. Your anger that I dared to post on this seed is proving my point.

  • 4 votes
#1.19 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:33 PM EDT
Mark-1152629

LOL. Nice try to intimidate me. Didn't work.

I don't mean to continually knock you off your feminist perch, but the nonsense you posted after the quoted comments above have confirmed all I've come to conclude about you in previous posts. Give up your rant, as I doubt you are convincing any. Besides, I'm becoming bored with this back-and-forth, and it is truly deviating from the the topic at hand.

The facts are that a young man was killed by a woman whom has a violent and substance-abuse history, and there are no substantial witnesses available to stand up for the deceased man. A district attorney may have rushed a judgement and released a statement of events that concludes the woman not responsible for taking another person's life, all because a visitor to a person's home crossed their foot beyond the home's door threshold.

  • 2 votes
#1.20 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:07 AM EDT
VerbalBarb

A district attorney may have rushed a judgement and released a statement of events that concludes the woman not responsible for taking another person's life, all because a visitor to a person's home crossed their foot beyond the home's door threshold.

Or it could be the scenario you've made made up after reading various press reports (ignoring some, it would seem) is totally bogus.

  • 4 votes
#1.21 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:21 AM EDT
Defense Counsel

Mark, I suggest you start your own investigation since you are so highly touting your opinion. As you know, no one will buy it. I think the authorities had all the facts and in even more detail than your hypothetical. You started with your post being gender biased, even if you tried to make it subliminal. Loretta is very honest and open about her beliefs. You lost on this one dude.

  • 4 votes
#1.22 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:46 AM EDT
cjfromMN

MARK

the problem you have is really more about WHAT YOU THINK, vs what the facts taking into account and how the law works.

You clearly don't seem to be able to separate the two parts of this situation. Your thinking that the d.a. should have come to a different conclusion is nice but he did what he was supposed to do which is put facts in the box of scrutiny and then see if they out weight the right of any citizen to safe in there PRIVATE property.

As far as me coming to your home and your baseball theory, you cant have both ways. you cant invite me, and then attack me, because if you did, and i killed you the question asked would be, what mental issue does mark have by inviting you over and then trying to hit your with a bat. YES SOUNDS DUMB doesn't it.

That theory is not what happened to this woman. Most reasonable minded people call the police when some takes there stuff. This guy didn't because he is used to being forceful and regardless of his demeanor, he was not invited to return to her apartment thus he has no standing to be on the property, which someone with half a brain knows, and would call the police to meet them there so he could get his stuff with out confrontation.

  • 1 vote
#1.23 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:40 PM EDT
OomYaaqub

In a case like this what are you supposed to do let the person do the damage and hope you have a case, or are still alive when the police get there?? No, you defend yourself.

Of course, and nobody in their right mind would disagree with that.

  • 2 votes
#1.24 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:43 PM EDT
OomYaaqub

Although it is common for men to be the aggressor in domestic violence situations like this, it would not be unusual for the woman to be the culprit. Based only upon the limited witness accounts (and the man being incoherent and unable to speak), I'd like to think that a case like this would be reviewed for a great amount of time before a DA comes to any conclusions. Personally, I think the DA is being negligent in this case, and I don't think we've heard the end of this story.

Well, it's Colorado, where the entire criminal justice system is run by incompetents. So it's about what I'd expect, if the details you gave are true. They punish the victim and exhonerate the perpetrator as often as not.

  • 1 vote
#1.25 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:47 PM EDT
OomYaaqub

Most intimate partner homicides committed on men are done by other men. Forgot to mention that?

Frankly, I find that very hard to believe. Any links or references?

  • 1 vote
#1.26 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:29 AM EDT
Reply
ScreamingForVengeance

She absolutely did the right thing. This dude was basically terrorizing her and she decided that she had had enough.

She sucked him in knowing he would act crazy and then she took care of business. I have no problem with it. A punk got what a punk deserves.

Justice was actually served here.....

  • 4 votes
#2 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:39 PM EDT
KYPIAKOC

Can you be serious? How is it possibly right to "suck him in knowing he would act crazy?" Call the authorities and land his @*- in jail. That is what civilized people do. We have laws for a reason, and unless it is absolutely necessary, we may not take the law into our own hands.

  • 5 votes
#2.1 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:41 PM EDT
Z1P2

Call the authorities and land his @*- in jail.

They can't do anything until he hurt her. You gonna let some punk kid hurt your daughter just so that she doesn't act in self-defense?

  • 6 votes
#2.2 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:39 PM EDT
JimEdee

That is what civilized people do. We have laws for a reason, and unless it is absolutely necessary, we may not take the law into our own hands.

The sad thing is, it only works when both people are civilized...not just one. This woman protecting her life, did just what was necessary. There are times when...push comes to shove...you take the law into your hands, or you die. That simple. She didn't want to die.

  • 9 votes
#2.3 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:50 PM EDT
TruettCollins

KYPIAKOC - call the police...over and over again...then you get a restraining order...you know that piece of paper that will fully protect her (/sarc), or at least help the DA to add a new charge after he has rapped or killed her....

  • 6 votes
#2.4 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:18 AM EDT
KYPIAKOC

Here's the thing, why did she open the door? I don't sympathize with the guy, don't get me wrong, but he had already choked her, they got him out, they had enough to bring assault and battery charges, so why not call the police? Why let him back in if they already knew he was acting violently? Something here just doesn't make sense.

  • 3 votes
#2.5 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:22 AM EDT
Defense Counsel

I agree True, KYP do you live on an island alone?? Arrest and restraining orders are rarely effective against "psychotic drunken monkeys". As my mother used to say when she was alive,"It wouldn't have happened if he wasn't there drunked up and raging". Something along those lines. He brought it on himself.

  • 6 votes
#2.6 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:28 AM EDT
KYPIAKOC

He certainly wasn't innocent in all this, but there is no reason she should have let him in a second time. I'm not saying she should have sat around and waited calmly for the police, but she didn't handle this the right way. It's always better when people don't end up dead in the end.

  • 3 votes
#2.7 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:37 AM EDT
Loretta Kemsley

I'd say he wasn't the one to handle it the right way. He shouldn't have been there under false pretenses (to pick up his stuff). He shouldn't have been trying to break her door down. He shouldn't have been terrorizing her. He shouldn't have tried to murder her. He shouldn't have assumed he could commit murder without his victim fighting back.

  • 9 votes
#2.8 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:39 PM EDT
Jerry Verlinger

He shouldn't have tried to murder her. He shouldn't have assumed he could commit murder without his victim fighting back.

There is no evidence reported that he "tried too murder her", he did in fact assault her, but whether he intended to murder her is an unanswered question.

She also likely did not intend to kill him, it seems to me she was reacting to the heat of the moment and he got dead as a result.

I think the DA made a difficult, but good call here. When someone breaks a beer bottle with their head and they keep on coming, ...... ya gotta do what ya gotta do to stop them.

I feel bad for the girl, she obviously cared for the guy at one, and I'm sure she did not intend to kill him, but she'll have to live with this for the rest of her life.

  • 5 votes
#2.9 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:28 PM EDT
Loretta Kemsley

"Choking" is strangulation. Strangulation is done to murder someone. He was trying to murder her.

  • 8 votes
#2.10 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:32 PM EDT
Jerry Verlinger

He was trying to murder her.

He MAY have been trying to murder her. But he was drunk and I don't think he was trying to intentionally murder her.

But she didn't know that, so she did what she had to do to protect herself. I also don't think she intended to kill him.

  • 3 votes
#2.11 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:25 PM EDT
Loretta Kemsley

No, she didn't intend to kill him. Yes, he was trying to murder her. There is no other reason to strangle someone. It would be charged as attempted murder if he'd lived. Being drunk doesn't excuse him from his violent actions.

Here's info from another article. The "news release" they refer to was from the DA's office.The article details what happened before she opened the door, including when he was in the house the first time. At that time, he knocked her to the ground and tried to choke her. I'm picking it up from when she opened the door the second time:

http://www.coloradoan.com/article/G2/20111021/NEWS01/110210344/No-charges-beer-bottle-death

After Lakin opened the door, Cassidy "pushed the door open, stepped across the threshold and was coming at Azura. Azura struck him in the head with the bottle and it broke," according to the news release.

"Both girls stated that Shaun seemed unfazed when hit with the bottle. They said he continued toward Azura as if to choke her again, and she struck him with the now broken bottle. This strike cut him down the side of his head and neck," according to the news release

Cassidy pushed Azura Lakin against a wall, and Anna Lakin tried to push him off her sister. The women could see that Cassidy was bleeding, and Azura Lakin yelled at her sister to call 911. Cassidy left the apartment, followed by Azura Lakin.

"A witness outside said that Azura was yelling 'Oh my god' and 'I didn't mean to hurt him,'" according to the news release.

The investigation found that the Lakin sisters had bruises and scrapes from the incident.

Prior to these incidents, he was at the bar where Azura was and got jealous because she danced with another man. At that time, he broke a beer bottle and smashed her phone. The smashing of a victim's possessions is a common part of DV. The message is "I can do what I want to you and you might be next." Because it was her phone, he was also trying to stop her from calling her sister (isolation control tactic) which would have allowed her to escape from his violence. The idea that he gets to choose who she can interact with is also an abusive control tactic common in DV.

She did manage to reach her sister and left with her. He took a taxi to her place. That's when she opened the door the first time. Per the article, she opened the door the second time in an effort to get him to leave.

Prior to his arrival at her place, she'd called the police to see if he'd been arrested for the bar incident, which implies there was more violence than described in the article. In any case, the DV began at the bar and he chose to pursue here when she escaped his violence and control. He continued to escalate his violence at her house.

  • 8 votes
#2.12 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:09 PM EDT
KYPIAKOC

That clears up a lot of questions. Thanks Loretta.

  • 6 votes
#2.13 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:54 PM EDT
OomYaaqub

Here's the thing, why did she open the door

Because you generally don't assume that someone you used to date is going to try to kill you.

  • 2 votes
#2.14 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:26 PM EDT
KYPIAKOC

Though you generally do assume that after you just barely managed to push him out the door after he tried to strangle you and now he's banging on the door. In any case, the info provided by LK a couple posts up presents a much clearer picture of the scenario than I had formerly been aware of.

  • 3 votes
#2.15 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:00 PM EDT
Mark-1152629

I think the woman made a serious mistake and found a legal avenue to avoid a jail sentence.

A woman invites an out-of-town ex-lover to stay at her home, then gets into an argument with the man in public and leaves him behind. She then makes phone calls to locate the man and presumably invite him back to her home. Man arrives at her home and she won't give him back his belongings because he broke her cellular phone. Man attempts to coerse her, to provide him his belongings in order to leave the premises, by continually knocking on her door.

Woman opens door with weapon in hand and smashes beer bottle over his head and inevitably slits his throat. Woman sees the injury she's inflicted and runs out of the home screaming "I didn't mean to hurt him". Then she tells the police that she hit him because he broke her cell phone. Therefore, police arrest woman for assault.

Woman is bonded out of jail the following day. Man spends week in hospital before succumbing to his injuries. Police investigate an otherwise typical domestic violence case up to the point where the man has died. Then the investigation seeks witness accounts a week after the events transpired. Any good attorney will likely consult with their client to provide proper instruction on the accounts of an event to insure Colorado's Make My Day law complies; particularly when such an event offers no opposing or differing account of the events, because the other party is deceased.

Would the OP open up her mind and leave her prejudices aside if the man where found to not be intoxicated? How about if the man has a history of being a law-abiding citizen? Maybe the OP would show less prejudice if she found that the woman has a history of domestic conflict with men? How about if the woman has had multiple alcohol offenses and is currently on probation for such unlawful violations? Would the OP be less gender-biased on this story if she found that the woman has had restraining orders filed against her by other women or men?

These are all facts that make this otherwise simple case of self-defense take on a whole different stance. Unfortunately, the DA's office is not obligated to look any deeper than the direct evidence of this specific case. There are no background checks, no alcohol content evidence collected, and no consultations with other CO jurisdictions to assist in the evaluations of the credibility of the woman and her account of the events that took a man's life. If nothing else, this case should be brought to trial and subject the woman, her sister and the two male friends to stand before God and their peers, place their hands upon a Bible and swear to tell the truth about the events that occurred that night. Outside of this occurring, we'll likely never know the real story of how this man lost his life.

  • 2 votes
#2.16 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:05 PM EDT
VerbalBarb

Mark, I think you should go see the DA right now with all this evidence you've accumulated. I'm sure he'll change his mind.

  • 3 votes
#2.17 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:37 PM EDT
Mark-1152629

According to my information, the DA has already been informed of these facts. However, many of the items noted above are not a specific aspect of what occurred the night the man was injured. Therefore, the DA is under no obligation to investigate these "background" issues. Colorado's law is cut & dry; if a non-homeowner sets one foot across a home's door threshold, the home's owner may use deadly force against the visitor. I think the DA has set a dangerous presedent with his ruling in this case, and I'll be watching out for new CO crimes similar to this (I believe one has occurred in Colorado Springs today).

It is a lot simpler for the DA to close the case and not push for trial where a jury will need to consider outside elements to verify witness credibility. This would be an extremely tough case for any DA to win in court, since there are witness accounts to only one side. However, a person's life was lost in this case, and I'd like to think that the law would fight for me if it were my life lost.

  • 3 votes
#2.18 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:47 PM EDT
VerbalBarb

Colorado's law is cut & dry; if a non-homeowner sets one foot across a home's door threshold, the home's owner may use deadly force against the visitor.

Well, there ya go.

It sounds like she would have been covered even if he hadn't choked her and then took a shot at doing it again.

  • 4 votes
#2.19 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:54 PM EDT
Loretta Kemsley

You didn't answer my question: Have you protested this long and loud at other cases in CO where this law was applied? If not, why not?

  • 3 votes
#2.20 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:03 PM EDT
Mark-1152629

Do you think that interpretation of the CO law is acceptable, VerbalBarb? If so, I'd like to invite you over for a visit to my CO home and we'll test your veracity.

Loretta, your question to me is irrelevant to this specific case; my involvement stems from the locality of the event. Your post above is even more irrelevant due to the fact that you did not pose your question to me in this #2 string, so I and others are likely baffled by your abusive and intrusive insinuations that seem to indicate you are somehow owed special attention in this blog. It appears that not only do you have gender-biased issues, but you may also be stricken with some type of an attention-craving disorder.

  • 1 vote
#2.21 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:11 PM EDT
Loretta Kemsley

So the answer is no, you aren't upset with other rulings under this law and are just focusing on this one case.

That's telling.

  • 2 votes
#2.22 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:14 PM EDT
Mark-1152629

Ha! What is it "telling" you, Loretta? Is it telling you that you are obsessed with the feeling that all men think women are inferior and are objects that can be manipulated and inevitably destroyed? If that is what my reluctance to answer your irrelevant question is "telling" you, then it is my opinion that your obsession against men has overcome your common sense and you are providing an injustice to women's rights. I certainly wouldn't blindly advocate for men's rights in every situation when oblivious to all the facts.

I might ask why you are so one-sided on this issue, but I won't bother due to your gender-biased posts here and in your other "seeds"; you don't seem to offer any credibility.

  • 1 vote
#2.23 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:56 PM EDT
VerbalBarb

If so, I'd like to invite you over for a visit to my CO home and we'll test your veracity.

It would be a bad test, since you just invited me to your home, with a bunch of witnesses who saw the invitation.

  • 3 votes
#2.24 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:56 PM EDT
Mark-1152629

Yes, it was exactly an invitation to my home. What makes you think the man in the story was not an invited guest to the woman's home? It couldn't be because his weekend clothes bag was in her house. It also couldn't be because they left her home together earlier to go out for drinks? Certainly, it couldn't be because she called looking for him after their argument?

Or, was it suddenly not an invitation because she opened the door and allowed him entry into her home, a home that contained his clothes bag, car keys, and wallet? Was it suddenly not an invitiation because a week after her violent attack she ammended her story when the victim died, thus seeking justification from the CO Make My Day law after receiving consultation from a law firm? The facts are obvious that Colorado's Make My Day law would not help a deceased you if witnesses simply stated that you were invited to my home.

  • 2 votes
#2.25 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:31 AM EDT
VerbalBarb

What makes you think the man in the story was not an invited guest to the woman's home?

He initially was. That doesn't mean he gets to barge in and go for her once he's been kicked out. After choking her.

I think I'll rely on the DA's investigation and decsion in the matter rather than your made up scenario formed after reading articles, accepting some information and just non-chalantly throwing out other information.

My guess is the DA does his job by looking at actual evidence, not by Monday morning quarterbacking.

  • 3 votes
#2.26 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:40 AM EDT
Mark-1152629

That doesn't mean he gets to barge in and go for her once he's been kicked out. After choking her.

Oh VerbalBarb, don't be so naive to give credit to the accounts of two related person's that provide witness to a deadly situation after having a week to think about it, review the case with an attorney and alter their stories. Remember, the woman's initial confession to the police, after she attacked the man, was that she struck him with the bottle because he broke her phone. Only after the man had died did she alter her story to include the version where she was choked. Keep in mind that her mug-shot showed no signs of a physical altercation, nor did she indicate such when arrested that night for assault.

In regards to your accusations of my throwing out some information, I've only discarded information that appears to be hasty and contrary to previous reports. How can a confession to assaulting a man, because he broke her phone, change to killing him because he entered her home and she feared for her life?

If you think the DA is doing its job in this case, it might be prudent for you to look into the recent history of the Larimer County District Attorney's office and the ineptitude of their previous job performance. They appear to be operating in a manner consistent with a reluctance to stick their necks out for the benefit of their constituency.

  • 2 votes
#2.27 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:22 AM EDT
VerbalBarb

Oh VerbalBarb, don't be so naive to give credit to the accounts of two related person's that provide witness to a deadly situation after having a week to think about it, review the case with an attorney and alter their stories.

Yeah, I should be sensible and believe the DA's got it all wrong, all the witnesses lied and/or that the DA could convict the woman but just doesn't feel like it - and you've got proof of what really happened by reading newspaper articles.

Sure. lol

I'm done with your fantasy.

  • 4 votes
#2.28 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:01 AM EDT
OomYaaqub

Colorado's law is cut & dry; if a non-homeowner sets one foot across a home's door threshold, the home's owner may use deadly force against the visitor. I think the DA has set a dangerous presedent with his ruling in this case, and I'll be watching out for new CO crimes similar to this (I believe one has occurred in Colorado Springs today)

Which shows what a mistake such laws are. Technically, couldn't you even kill a first responder with impunity because you say you "thought" he was a burglar?

I once got a Protection from Abuse Order against someone who had been arrested the same day; I was promised he'd be served with the PFA while still in jail, but somehow it didn't happen before he could make bail. Of course I didn't know that. So when he showed up at the house, could I have shot him? (I don't own a gun; just speaking hypothetically.) Would my children have forgiven me for killing their father? Would I have maintained my sanity?

Basically, this is a stupid law that will inevitably result in many needless tragedies.

    #2.29 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:54 PM EDT
    Reply
    Jeff-3469909

    You ask me he got what he deserved. Any man who treats a woman like that shouldn't expect sympathy when something bad happens to him.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#3 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:46 PM EDT
    JimEdee

    Jerry...you come up with some good ones man.

    She let did let him into her home ... but then he did attack her.

    IMO, yes she did let him in...with the understanding of, he was there to pick up his things. He screwed up when he attacked her.

    Was her reaction excessive? Or did she have the right to defend herself to the degree that she did?

    I don't think is was excessive. If she had cut his head off, or some "out in left field" sort thing, maybe it would have been. This guy is choking her, now it doesn't say that she was a psychologist, or a mind reader...all she knows is he's choking her, so she did what she had to do.

    She should have locked the door and called 911, but she elected to take the law into her own hands.

    Our youngest daughter went through the phase of screaming at us, running into her room, slamming the door and locking it. Ask nicely twice, third time I kicked the door off the hinges. The next thing is, what is the response time on a 911 called? A minute? 5-10-20 minutes? How much damage could the ex have done before they got there? Would he of even still been there. I don't see it as her taking the law into her hands, as much as her taking the protection of her life into her own hands.

    So should she go completely unpunished? Or should she be charged with Involuntary Manslaughter?

    IMO, yes she should go unpunished. I'm sorry, but someone breaks into my home at night, the cops will find them there in the morning. The ex started the violence, he took his chances and he lost. Something else I look at here, in a way it can be considered domestic violence, now that being the case, you charge this woman with the crime of protecting herself, what message are you sending other battered women?

    • 11 votes
    Reply#4 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:48 PM EDT
    Shannoscubie

    you charge this woman with the crime of protecting herself, what message are you sending other battered women?

    Just so.

    • 7 votes
    #4.1 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:55 PM EDT
    Loretta Kemsley

    Something else I look at here, in a way it can be considered domestic violence,.....

    It is very clearly domestic violence and yes, she had the right to defend herself. Choking is meant to kill. He was trying to commit murder. In what other situation would someone even question a person's right to prevent their own murder?

    • 8 votes
    #4.2 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:58 PM EDT
    OomYaaqub

    Actually, I'm somewhat impressed. Colorado has a history of arresting the female VICTIM in cases of DV, apparently just to keep their quotas on track, perhaps also because they know women are more likely to plead guilty and do their two days in jail, which saves the arresting officer a boring wait at the courthouse. I've known women who were covered with bruises but the cops arrested THEM rather than their boyfriends/husbands because the women admitted they had pushed the guy or something in their effort to get away. I guess in this particular case they decided to believe her since hers was the only story they were able to hear.

    • 1 vote
    #4.3 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:31 PM EDT
    VerbalBarb

    I guess in this particular case they decided to believe her since hers was the only story they were able to hear.

    Or, she was lucky her sister was there, also. The article mentions that she and her sister initially pushed the guy out of the house - so it looks like she had a witness.

    • 3 votes
    #4.4 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:45 PM EDT
    Loretta Kemsley

    The taxi driver would also be a witness to his inebriation and whatever happened outside the house. He also could be a witness to any hostility expressed while in or near the cab.

    There are also witnesses at the bar where he was definitely hostile and violent.

    • 5 votes
    #4.5 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:49 PM EDT
    Mark-1152629

    It appears from the DA's statement that they interviewed only four witnesses to the man's demeanor, the woman and her sister along with two of their friends at the bar. It seems a little one-sided if all parties are in favor of the woman. Where are the witness accounts from the bartender, neighbors, ect?

    Another interviewed party is likely the taxi driver whom indicated the woman mentioned that she didn't mean to hurt him. Herein lies a conflict -if the man is a physical threat to the woman's life (CO Make My Day law) and she defends herself with the bottle, why would she then immediately say "I didn't mean to hurt him"? I think the taxi driver's testimony indicates that there is more to this story than how it was portrayed by a DA whom might be reluctant to press charges based upon gender biases (meaning: it's hard to prosecute a woman under these circumstances).

    Additionally, it was printed in earlier reports that the woman's initial statement to the police was that she hit him with a beer bottle because he broke her phone. I've followed this story since it hit the Fort Collins newspaper the day it happened, and I've found that the woman's accounts of the events have evolved since her first statements. I believe that during the week while the man fought his injuries in a hospital, the woman may have received some legal advice and found a way to utilize Colorado's Make My Day law. I'm sure the woman didn't mean to kill the man, but it would not be unusual to find that some woman enjoy conflict in relationships and this one might have gotten out of hand for her.

    • 3 votes
    #4.6 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:14 AM EDT
    Reply
    Shannoscubie

    Is the DA is wrong? Was her reaction excessive?

    I don't think so. Cassidy attacked her over and over.

    She should have locked the door and called 911, but she elected to take the law into her own hands.

    I don't know about you, but I've been the victim of stalking and had to call the police for help. You know what they told me? They said they couldn't do anything for me until the stalker did something to me.

    So what would you do in that situation? Would you wait for the stalker/ex/random person to rape you and/or slash your throat with a beer bottle after they broke down the door you tried to lock before calling 911 or would you take steps to protect yourself as best you could because the police have already told you they can't do anything until you're in either the hospital or the morgue?

    • 9 votes
    Reply#5 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:53 PM EDT
    OomYaaqub

    If they are actually at your doorstep, that means they are on your property and that's criminal trespass if they won't leave. Some cops are lazy *&/%'s. Some police departments have been successfully sued because of it.

      #5.1 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:32 PM EDT
      cjfromMN

      OOM

      id like to see the facts of you producing police departments losing money via suits of a criminal trespass-- private property law violations means there has to be someone present to issue a criminal trespass, thus thats a bold face lie, nice try.

      Police officers a normally are the first ones, to TELL PEOPLE to do a trespass and most people dont follow that warning.

      the cops suggest it to the citizen so as to not have to RETURN TO THE LOCATION on a call back.

        #5.2 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:58 PM EDT
        OomYaaqub

        id like to see the facts of you producing police departments losing money via suits of a criminal trespass-- private property law violations means there has to be someone present to issue a criminal trespass, thus thats a bold face lie, nice try.

        You misunderstood me. I wasn't even talking about criminal trespass per se, but about the entire category of domestic violence (and Colorado does call "domestic violence" a category, not a specific crime.) There are police departments in many states that were sued because they didn't take domestic violence seriously and failed to enforce laws that were on the books. Women were permanently disabled and in some cases killed because of such police inaction. That is probably why some states now go to other extreme including mandatory arrest laws that guarantee one or both parties goes to jail even if neither party wants to press charges. It may also explain completely screwed up messes like this case is starting to look like.

        As far as I'm concerned, they should give that entire state back to the Indians and let them run it. The white people there have made an unbelievable mess of it.

          #5.3 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:14 AM EDT
          cjfromMN

          OOM

          well your comment still doesn't hold water, the laws that have been passed were pushed by womens rights groups and statistics that showed removing a party helps cut down on the violence that could continue if that party didn't leave.

          YOUR ASSUMPTION is just that. Your opinion of what cops do in a domestic is just that. I cant imagine you producing any statistic that shows POLICE DEPTS sued for lack of action in a domestic.

          This case is pretty simple and clean in the scope of how the law works. I am not sure if the racial comment is necessary because any color of people have domestics, so i think your not really right minded.

          • 1 vote
          #5.4 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:34 AM EDT
          Reply
          edeagus

          this goes to something i've maintained for quite some time: we need background checks and waiting periods for beer bottle purchases.

          • 5 votes
          Reply#6 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:28 PM EDT
          Linda-ladywolf

          No, we need background checks before we make that first date!

          • 3 votes
          #6.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:58 AM EDT
          gmross

          Maybe we need to do background checks on the beer first, see which bottles are dangerous. /s

          • 2 votes
          #6.2 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:37 AM EDT
          OomYaaqub

          No, we need background checks before we make that first date!

          Wouldn't help. Too many women don't press charges, in part because they fear a scenario as I described in post 5.1, or if they have kids, they fear CPS involvement for "exposing the children to violence." As long as we continue to punish the victim in these ways, most violent men will go undetected.

          • 1 vote
          #6.3 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:22 PM EDT
          Reply
          edeagus

          this goes to something i've maintained for quite some time: we need background checks and waiting periods for beer bottle purchases.

          • 2 votes
          Reply#7 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:35 PM EDT
          ScreamingForVengeance

          Can you be serious? How is it possibly right to "suck him in knowing he would act crazy?" Call the authorities and land his @*- in jail. That is what civilized people do. We have laws for a reason, and unless it is absolutely necessary, we may not take the law into our own hands.

          You obviously have no clue about how things work in the real world. The athorities won't/can't stop these types of things until after the fact.

          Screw that. She did the right thing.....

          • 6 votes
          Reply#8 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:36 AM EDT
          KYPIAKOC

          No, I can see waiting by the door with a baseball bat and using deadly force if he broke down the door. Letting him in when you know he is going to act violently and then using deadly force is wrong.

          • 4 votes
          #8.1 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:27 AM EDT
          Shannoscubie

          I can see waiting by the door with a baseball bat and using deadly force if he broke down the door.

          Maybe she was tired of cowering in fear and opened the door to tell the SOB to f-off. Maybe she even had the bottle in her hand at the time and tried to scare him off with it. Seriously stupid of him to charge at her in that case.

          • 5 votes
          #8.2 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:44 AM EDT
          Loretta Kemsley

          Maybe she could see he was going to break the door down, leaving her with nothing between her and him, so she decided to open it before he destroyed it completely. Maybe he stopped and acted calm, then lied to her that he was done being violent. Maybe the person who was with her told her what was happening was her fault because she wouldn't let him in, that if she let him in, the other person would deal with him and she'd be safer.

          I'm going to ask again: what situation other than DV would cause anyone to think the victim didn't have the right to defend herself?

          • 8 votes
          #8.3 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:43 PM EDT
          Defense Counsel

          Osiyo Loretta. Well put my friend !!

          • 5 votes
          #8.4 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:52 PM EDT
          KYPIAKOC

          She certainly had every right to defend herself. There is a lot of detail we don't have. My response had been to Screaming for Vengeance, who asserts that luring him back in so as to finish him off was the right thing to do, which to me is a repulsive idea. I think the DA made the right call. I'm certain the young man was scum, and he probably got what was coming. I don't think the young woman acted prudently, though in all honesty, almost no one would act prudently in such a situation unless they had been extensively trained (police/military).

          • 4 votes
          #8.5 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:03 PM EDT
          Loretta Kemsley

          I just posted a link and the complete details at 2.12

          Per the DA's release, she opened the door in an effort to get him to leave, and he barged in again, beginning his violence again. She first hit him aside the head, causing the head injury. He continued his violence. She then struck him with the broken bottle, causing the cuts. He still continued his violence. The sisters did not think he was fatally injured because of his continued actions. Even so, he was bleeding, so they called 911 to get help for him and tried to get him to stay until the paramedics arrived. But he left. So he was still amublatory at that time. I don't remember if the article said when he finally got medical help.

          • 8 votes
          #8.6 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:19 PM EDT
          Mark-1152629

          The problem with the DA's release is that the accounts of the events are based upon the woman, whom may receive a severe penalty for her actions, and the woman's sister, whom may be inclined to protect her sibling. The woman and her sister also had a week or more to consult with an attorney/s before the man died of his injuries.

          If I were a competent District Attorney, I'd be researching this case a lot longer than a week. I'd check for witness accounts from neighbors, bartenders, citizens at the bar, etc. I'd look into the background of the former relationship between the man and woman. I'd contact law enforcement to check for prior lawful violations regarding the man and woman independently.

          A person died at the hands of another, so I'd expect a great amount of investigative effort to ensue and this effort would likely consume more than a week's worth of time. Colorado's Make My Day law appears to have afforded the DA a convenient "wrap-up" to this mysterious case. Although, I don't think we've heard the end of this case.

          • 1 vote
          #8.7 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:38 AM EDT
          OomYaaqub

          Per the DA's release, she opened the door in an effort to get him to leave

          That's like poking a stick at a pit bull in an effort to get it to stop barking.

            #8.8 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:17 AM EDT
            Reply
            maria lyn

            I just think this is really a sad story for all involved whom love them both. And Loretta is right he may have killed her instead if she had not defended herself. It's just sad that his injuries wound up costing him his life.

            • 6 votes
            Reply#9 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:35 PM EDT
            cjfromMN

            She clearly did the right thing and the d.a. made the right call. The family of this guy should have never allowed him to leave being so angry. And when she and her sister both are needed,that shows he was out of control and he made a choice that she responded too.

            Good for her to stand up and defend her space and keep her right to feel safe.

            • 4 votes
            Reply#10 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:09 PM EDT
            maria lyn

            cjfromMN_____She definitely did the right thing/every body should protect themselves from being abused/both physically and verbally. Because living in life without feeling like you have the right to protect yourself is not living life comfortably.

            • 3 votes
            #10.1 - Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:31 AM EDT
            OomYaaqub

            She definitely did the right thing/every body should protect themselves from being abused/both physically and verbally.

            Everybody should kill if they feel they are being abused VERBALLY?!?

              #10.2 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:18 AM EDT
              Reply
              greck

              According to police reports the ex-boyfriend, Shaun Cassidy, 23,

              he just wanted to tell her he woke up in love this morning!

              according to friends, Cassidy was very in love, and often told them "I met her on a Monday and my heart stood still"

                Reply#11 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:21 PM EDT
                Loretta Kemsley

                Abusers do say they are in love. The problem is their version of love includes ownership which gives them the right to control their victim. It does not include recognizing the right of the victim to make her own decisions and control her own life, including excluding the abuser from their life.

                Stalkers who have never met their victim will tell you they're in love too. Would you accept that claim if they harmed their victim?

                • 3 votes
                #11.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:46 PM EDT
                greck

                I actually screwed up and conflated David and Shaun Cassidy.

                • 2 votes
                #11.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:48 PM EDT
                Loretta Kemsley

                LOL. That's easy to do, especially if you're not paying close attention. I too get caught in that syndrome.

                • 2 votes
                #11.3 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:37 PM EDT
                greck

                yeah, but with all the posters I have of each of them on my bedroom walls, it's almost unforgivable.

                • 1 vote
                #11.4 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:42 PM EDT
                Loretta Kemsley

                Oh, well, I don't have posters, so I can plead simple forgetfulness. Hmmm...well, we tend to get inured and overlook what we see everyday, so that can be your excuse.

                • 2 votes
                #11.5 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:44 PM EDT
                Reply
                maria lyn

                Sorry I've been down most of the day/so how do David & Shaun Cassidy have to do with this story. Fill me in because I'm too tired to figure it out. Thanks Maria

                • 1 vote
                Reply#12 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:41 PM EDT
                Loretta Kemsley

                Shaun Cassidy was the name of the ex-boyfriend who attacked her and died when she fought back.

                • 2 votes
                #12.1 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:50 PM EDT
                Defense Counsel

                Osiyo Loretta. I just did my 3rd 14 hour day in a row. Hellllllllllllllpppp!!! LOL I'm tired too. Nancy Drew wasn't the detective was she?? Please tell me Danny Partridge wasn't involved. LOL

                Dohiyi Oginali.........

                • 3 votes
                #12.2 - Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:06 PM EDT
                maria lyn

                Loretta_____I see now i had forgotten that so thanks for the reminder. Looks like they were two people that didn't belong together/and the way it ended was really tragic.

                • 3 votes
                #12.3 - Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:16 AM EDT
                maria lyn

                What no one has anything else to say/about a lady that is a killer that won't be held accountable/for killing her boyfriend. Just kidding she did the only thing she could do to protect herself/she fought back instead of becoming just another victim.

                • 1 vote
                #12.4 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:14 PM EDT
                OomYaaqub

                It very much looks as if SOMEONE was going to die that night.

                • 1 vote
                #12.5 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:22 PM EDT
                maria lyn

                Yes it surely did and thats the sad part of the whole situation.

                • 1 vote
                #12.6 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:46 PM EDT
                Reply
                Gorgon-891617

                If all the facts were examined, then the self-defense should stand. Kind of sucks for the drunken boyfriend, but it appears he did have every chance to back off.

                I think the nature of the killing sets some people off, but if she'd simply shot him while he was attacking her, would anybody have a problem?

                • 3 votes
                Reply#13 - Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:10 PM EDT
                maria lyn

                I think your right that you could look at the story in a very different light/concluding that she could have avoided killing him. But after reading all the facts she did the only thing she could do.

                • 1 vote
                #13.1 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:53 PM EDT
                Reply
                maria lyn

                Jerry_____I've been trying to cope with what this poor lady must be feeling. It can't be easy to kill someone and not feel some guilt about it. Even though she did this in self defense she still must feellike there had to be another way. Here is hoping that she sees that she did the right thing.

                • 1 vote
                Reply#14 - Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:25 PM EDT
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